Would you use a simple accounting system if we built one into FOB?

[Steve Reeves]

We're thinking of adding a simple accounting system to FOB and would like to find out how much interest there would be.

Simple accounting is an oxymoron of course, because there's nothing simple about accounting. However we think we can build something that works pretty much like an old fashioned cash book, recording receipts and payments, and maintaining balances. Outputs will be the typical data you might hand over to the accountant for your tax returns etc.

With a little more complexity we can add receipts and expenses analysis, and even forecast out-turns for the year etc. making the software more of a management tool.

One of our challenges will be building something which works equally well in the USA and in Europe. The other will be not just replicating what's available with Quickbooks or Sage.

We'll need a group of users to help make sure we get it right.

But for the moment we're checking how much interest there will be.

Let us know what you think by adding to this discussion please.

[Duncan Scott]

I would certainly look at what sort of programme it was,it would need to be somewhat easier than Sage an d somewhat more sophisticated than the LLOYDS TSB Cash book programme I currently use.I would be looking at an "accounting for morons" type of programme,but with ability to produce basic reports and end of year results etc.Dont know how much help this is to you,Steve,at this early stage.
DUNCAN SCOTT

[Steve Reeves]

Hi Duncan

thanks for responding.

What you've described is exactly what we're thinking about.

The two main reports would be a cash book statement for monitoring balances and bank reconciliations and a full year, actuals and forecast with receipts and expenses in each month. As the forecast items are turned into actuals the year's forecast out-turn is updated.

We'll build all the clever stuff into the way the software works and have a single data entry page for entering receipts and payments in categories, both actual and forecast.

Revenue and expense items will be entered as onetime or recurring to help build up the forecast.

A .csv export would be all you would need to hand over to the accountant, and everyday you'd have visibility of your actual and planned position (in multiple accounts where appropriate).

This is the way I do our accounting for three businesses (and my personal stuff) except right now I use Google spreadsheets.

Can I enlist you in our group for deciding how to develop this?

Thanks

Steve

Duncan Scott said:

I would certainly look at what sort of programme it was,it would need to be somewhat easier than Sage an d somewhat more sophisticated than the LLOYDS TSB Cash book programme I currently use.I would be looking at an "accounting for morons" type of programme,but with ability to produce basic reports and end of year results etc.Dont know how much help this is to you,Steve,at this early stage.
DUNCAN SCOTT

[Cheri Haganey]

I've been a Quickbooks Pro Advisor for about 15 years = when it was in DOS -- I'm certified in almost all Intuit products and I'm the Northern CA RSP (Retail Service Provider) for QB Point of Sale - there's only like 120 of us in the US. Additionally, I integrate my BikeShop application with QB Point of Sale for the dealerships. I'm also a forensic accountant. In the US, 95% of all small businesses use QB - Microsoft can't even beat them out of the market with their accounting module for Office. They have it sewn up --- and they're the best at it. You might be better off thinking about integrating with QB through the an SDK that Intuit provides - I'm a member of the Intuit Developer's Network - the integration kit is free - you'd want the WebConnect ---
The other thing I wanted to touch on is that accounting systems are much deeper than income and expense --- the Chart of Accounts includes assets, liabilities and equity - I'm always getting clients out of jams because they think that they can code a credit card payment to a liability account - but, they don't understand that the individual charges are made up expenses usually. The thing about accounting is what starts out as a simple Profit and Loss inevitably ends up as Retained Earnings on a balance sheet and people get really messed up because of it. In BikeShop I have reporting tools that consumers, dealers, distributors and we can use to track purchases and sales. My application export is csv and can import into anything mapped correctly. I'm into making sure that BikeShop can always be independent and a stand alone if wanted so I keep it corralled to just historical transactions that are generated via lists and can be double clicked for a detailed report. There are something like 8 other dealer mgmt systems in the market I'm in --- but, the leader is still QB and I've customized a file that is the template for every motorcycle shop dealer - due to the vertical market and common pain points.

Steve Reeves said:

Hi Duncan

thanks for responding.

What you've described is exactly what we're thinking about.

The two main reports would be a cash book statement for monitoring balances and bank reconciliations and a full year, actuals and forecast with receipts and expenses in each month. As the forecast items are turned into actuals the year's forecast out-turn is updated.

We'll build all the clever stuff into the way the software works and have a single data entry page for entering receipts and payments in categories, both actual and forecast.

Revenue and expense items will be entered as onetime or recurring to help build up the forecast.

A .csv export would be all you would need to hand over to the accountant, and everyday you'd have visibility of your actual and planned position (in multiple accounts where appropriate).

This is the way I do our accounting for three businesses (and my personal stuff) except right now I use Google spreadsheets.

Can I enlist you in our group for deciding how to develop this?

Thanks

Steve

Duncan Scott said:

I would certainly look at what sort of programme it was,it would need to be somewhat easier than Sage an d somewhat more sophisticated than the LLOYDS TSB Cash book programme I currently use.I would be looking at an "accounting for morons" type of programme,but with ability to produce basic reports and end of year results etc.Dont know how much help this is to you,Steve,at this early stage.
DUNCAN SCOTT

[Steve Reeves]

Cheri

thanks for joining in.

Of course you're absolutely right about Accounting being a lot more involved than a simple Income and Expenditure report.

Probably accounting wasn't the best choice of word to describe the functionality we're thinking of building - I just couldn't think of another expression that would make sense to people.

There's absolutely no point in us competing with Quickbooks (in the USA) and Sage (in the UK) for people who want to manage their accounts and tax returns.

Our thoughts are more about a management tool that extends Plan>Act>Review to income and expenditure, for people who get their tax returns managed by CPA's. The idea orginally came from an FOB user who's needs are similar to Duncan's.

We're always looking at the different services coming available on the Internet and anticipating how they might change the way people support their business processes.

Another FOB user recently introduced us to Cashboard - software as a service providing for billing and accounts receivables management, and also interfacing with merchant services. We've recently tried out the service, with the customer paying via credit card, and the payment coming to our bank via PayPal. It works great and solves a lot of problems in revenue collection processes. We've also used the service in the reverse direction with us paying our partner through Cashboard and PayPal.

The result of this is we no longer need systems to manage receivables and payables because Cashboard does that stuff for us. What we do need is something in the middle to help us plan and manage income, expenditure and cash positions. In our business we use Google Spreadsheets for this.

( At the end of the year I turn the detail into a set of accounts and a tax return (we also have quarterly VAT returns in Europe) - these get done the same way. Most FOB users will have their CPA do this last bit, we think).

So our thoughts are about providing that "bit in the middle" between Cashboard and Paypal on one side, and the CPA on the other. Something to make it easier for people to manage their business based on cash flow, and collect information for the CPA in the process.

I'll obviously need to think of another word, because we really aren't talking about accounting at all :-)






Cheri Haganey said:

I've been a Quickbooks Pro Advisor for about 15 years = when it was in DOS -- I'm certified in almost all Intuit products and I'm the Northern CA RSP (Retail Service Provider) for QB Point of Sale - there's only like 120 of us in the US. Additionally, I integrate my BikeShop application with QB Point of Sale for the dealerships. I'm also a forensic accountant. In the US, 95% of all small businesses use QB - Microsoft can't even beat them out of the market with their accounting module for Office. They have it sewn up --- and they're the best at it. You might be better off thinking about integrating with QB through the an SDK that Intuit provides - I'm a member of the Intuit Developer's Network - the integration kit is free - you'd want the WebConnect ---
The other thing I wanted to touch on is that accounting systems are much deeper than income and expense --- the Chart of Accounts includes assets, liabilities and equity - I'm always getting clients out of jams because they think that they can code a credit card payment to a liability account - but, they don't understand that the individual charges are made up expenses usually. The thing about accounting is what starts out as a simple Profit and Loss inevitably ends up as Retained Earnings on a balance sheet and people get really messed up because of it. In BikeShop I have reporting tools that consumers, dealers, distributors and we can use to track purchases and sales. My application export is csv and can import into anything mapped correctly. I'm into making sure that BikeShop can always be independent and a stand alone if wanted so I keep it corralled to just historical transactions that are generated via lists and can be double clicked for a detailed report. There are something like 8 other dealer mgmt systems in the market I'm in --- but, the leader is still QB and I've customized a file that is the template for every motorcycle shop dealer - due to the vertical market and common pain points.

Steve Reeves said:

Hi Duncan

thanks for responding.

What you've described is exactly what we're thinking about.

The two main reports would be a cash book statement for monitoring balances and bank reconciliations and a full year, actuals and forecast with receipts and expenses in each month. As the forecast items are turned into actuals the year's forecast out-turn is updated.

We'll build all the clever stuff into the way the software works and have a single data entry page for entering receipts and payments in categories, both actual and forecast.

Revenue and expense items will be entered as onetime or recurring to help build up the forecast.

A .csv export would be all you would need to hand over to the accountant, and everyday you'd have visibility of your actual and planned position (in multiple accounts where appropriate).

This is the way I do our accounting for three businesses (and my personal stuff) except right now I use Google spreadsheets.

Can I enlist you in our group for deciding how to develop this?

Thanks

Steve

Duncan Scott said:

I would certainly look at what sort of programme it was,it would need to be somewhat easier than Sage an d somewhat more sophisticated than the LLOYDS TSB Cash book programme I currently use.I would be looking at an "accounting for morons" type of programme,but with ability to produce basic reports and end of year results etc.Dont know how much help this is to you,Steve,at this early stage.
DUNCAN SCOTT

[Duncan Scott]

This sounds very promising for my business,count me in,and we will see where it leads us in functionality for the those of us who are " accounting" challenged.

[Steve Reeves]

Thanks Duncan

I appreciate your support, as always.

The page mock ups are with Marc for him to give us his perspective on the development. (I should mention it was Marc's idea in the first place so he'll be looking at it both as developer and as a user.)

As soon as we have his feedback we'll put some mock ups on a site so you can help us review our ideas.

Duncan Scott said:

This sounds very promising for my business,count me in,and we will see where it leads us in functionality for the those of us who are " accounting" challenged.

[Terry Savage]

Hi Steve
From a personal perspective I wouldn't use an accounting function and I just wonder if it might start to become overcomplicated. FOB's attraction is its simplicity and the only thing I miss right now is some form of calendar integration. I use FOB to monitor my clients, both existing and potential. Following leads and scheduling my follow up contacts being the order of the day. I realise that this may be slightly different to those that sell 'hard' products, with specific values of orders.
Regards
Terry

[Steve Reeves]

Thanks for the input Terry.

Don't worry - we're absolutely not going to do anything that makes FOB complicated and we haven't forgotten about the calendar - we just haven't found a great way to do it yet but will keep looking.

Steve

Terry Savage said:

Hi Steve
From a personal perspective I wouldn't use an accounting function and I just wonder if it might start to become overcomplicated. FOB's attraction is its simplicity and the only thing I miss right now is some form of calendar integration. I use FOB to monitor my clients, both existing and potential. Following leads and scheduling my follow up contacts being the order of the day. I realise that this may be slightly different to those that sell 'hard' products, with specific values of orders.
Regards
Terry

[Cheri Haganey]

I agree with Terry - I will be using the CRM functionality

Terry Savage said:

Hi Steve
From a personal perspective I wouldn't use an accounting function and I just wonder if it might start to become overcomplicated. FOB's attraction is its simplicity and the only thing I miss right now is some form of calendar integration. I use FOB to monitor my clients, both existing and potential. Following leads and scheduling my follow up contacts being the order of the day. I realise that this may be slightly different to those that sell 'hard' products, with specific values of orders.
Regards
Terry

[Cheri Haganey]

Hopefully marc will be looking at the POS integration this week as well - that should give him insight as to what POS does

Steve Reeves said:

Thanks Duncan

I appreciate your support, as always.

The page mock ups are with Marc for him to give us his perspective on the development. (I should mention it was Marc's idea in the first place so he'll be looking at it both as developer and as a user.)

As soon as we have his feedback we'll put some mock ups on a site so you can help us review our ideas.

Duncan Scott said:

This sounds very promising for my business,count me in,and we will see where it leads us in functionality for the those of us who are " accounting" challenged.